Can't believe what Craig has gone through! His poor siblings, too, and my heart goes out to all of them. Thank God Craig has persevered! Blessings to all!
Carrie, that is some seriously good work. As someone who has known Craig since the 1980's I want to thank you for facing and being willing to write about the hard stuff. To the reader of this comment: please note that there are many sides to every story and multiple perspectives can all be right at the same time.
I am proud of Craig for tackling talking about mental illness both his own and his family’s. I am also a member of his family but on his wife’s side. I also have depression in my family which, had it not been taboo to talk about, I would have gotten help for SO much sooner. We are all human, not perfect, and pretending we don’t all have crap going on in our brains is “crazy”. Here’s to Craig - glad you’re in a better place and talking about it!! <3 Val
Words can not express how special Craig is for sharing his story. If one person can be helped from his story then he has done more than many can hope to do. Craig and his wife and children are truly special people.
Carrie, thank you for sharing Craig’s devastatingly tragic story of what seems to be a true account of his families struggle with mental illness . Kudos to anyone who sheds light on such a serious health issue in our culture.
As a lifelong friend of Steve Kay I feel the need to comment that I do not think that this article is as accurate as it may appear. It probably only reflects the opinions of Craig and his perception of his life. I have found in life that there are usually three sides to every story. The two sides of those In disagreement. And the truth. I will leave it at that.
You're right, Ron. This article only represents Craig's side of the story, though he quite readily admitted that he made plenty of mistakes and missteps all along the way, some of them the result of his untreated illness. What I think is the most important takeaway is not whose perspective is right or wrong -- if anyone's can be said to be the truth -- but how untreated and denied mental illness can derail a family, regardless of their wealth or status. Personally, I feel sad and sorry for all the members of the Kay family.
I went back and looked at this article and noticed both you, an well established plastic surgeon and Pilar of your community in Ellicott City
Ron I’m hoping that after 1 year of posting this which you took as my revenge on steve , isn’t that at all
If anything all three Kay kids were victims of a dysfunctional family with all members negotiating their days by viewing their experiences thru the prism their parents have put together according to their own narratives .
In that Case it was the never ending pursuit of the highest social status . That means that this must be attained damn the consequences on who gets hurt. They are viewed as causalities of war
I’m not sure you are aware but dolly has been officially diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder which as you know is very rare
So that dynamic established the Mr and Mrs Marvin Kay
Marvin - depression disorder , hid his alternate lifestyle private but it promoted his suicidal thoughts to his last day until Alzheimer’s removed his pain and shame .
He married a girl 10 years his junior after meeting each other only 75 days prior to a child who was not educated nor as sophisticated as him. He was looking for a mate that would bring him out of his shell
Dolly - diagnosed npd/bpd. OCD adhd
Dolly was just turning 19 when she became the wife of a very successful builder . She was showered with gifts and money that she never had during her childhood
Within 12 months after getting married she gave birth to Steve,
I have waited for 2 years and have lost my entire family while waiting to tell my story . My wife and my two daughters as well. If there are inaccuracies then let’s discuss them .
Ronny I have known you since I was 5 . I was your first and only groupie for your high school rock band. The last time steve was depressed in the mid 90s you and I spoke on how to best care for steve.
The last time I saw you was at the funeral. I came over to shake your hand as you were my brothers best friend . You would have nothing to do with me. You note any of steve or Ellen’s friends would give me the time of day.
Didn’t I lose a brother? You gave my mother a big hug and a kiss but not me. I went to sit next to my mother and she said no, I went to sit behind ellen and the kids and Steven and Beth israel, Ellen’s sister and brother I. Law wouldn’t allow me to sit down . Ellen’s eulogy wiped me out of Steve’s life.
What was The reason for your rejection of me. What were you told . I’d love to hear your side of the story. Curious why no one bothered to hear my side of story .
What’s adding insult to injury is that my sister in law of 36 years, a sister in law I have had no issues nor arguments with has created a hateful propaganda campaign against me . She accused me of stealing, she has labeled me the reason for Steve’s suicide . She has persuaded my mother to cut ties with me and my children . She has stolen the loyalties of my best friend. Why would she do that Ronny ?
Then there is the cover up of financial documents with my name on them. I have asked for ellen to give her side but she refuses to even acknowledge that I exist .
Don’t you agree that having respect for ones family is the most important. Do you believe I was shown any respect ?
If you would like to hear my story , I would love to hear yours . Name the time and place or we can zoom
And Ronny, you should show some respect for me . You have my email and phone number . It’s been 2 years , feel free to call you me at anytime
Hard to explain , but I’m still living as the exiled family member . Every week or so I get a disturbing communication from an estranged family member looking to reap $$ for beating me up. It’s awful but I am so thankful that when the next true crisis does occur I know who NOT to ask for help.
God works in mysterious ways . He meant for me to survive and tell my story
So dolly at age 22 dolly was the wife of a successful builder. She was the mother of a new born and a feisty toddler in steve.
But dolly was only putting on a front . Wife, mother, socialite. But she lacked vital life skills to go through life as an adult .
She never graduated high school
She could not drive a car until mid 60s
She paid no attention to the dysfunctional/highly emotional issues that both Kay kids were going through. Instead she played favorites
Steve was the golden child
karen was the scapegoat
dolly was the narcissist
Marvin was the enabler/flying monkey
This established hierarchy was the stencil even well before I was born in 1967
steve - depression disorder. Steve being the first child of a child mother enabled him to run her ragged. He did anything he wanted which he got much praise from parents . steve was the golden child
Karen - paranoid schizophrenic/npd(undiagnosed) . Karen had a great deal of difficulty . She was painfully shy and was completely overwhelmed by socialite mother and all of Dolly’s friends who also had daughters and which promoted competition which karen would not have any part of. Dolly wanted a Princess to doll up . Karen fought back and wasn’t shy about any of it . She was the first truthteller of the family . But her presentation often discredit her and caused her inherited mental illnesses to reveal themselves
Craig - manic depression, ptsd. Was born in 67 which was 7 years younger than karen and 10 years younger than steve . Kay family members were all adults by the time craig left his room and wanted to find a role within the family
Marvin - 40 years older but a very attentive weekend warrior dad since he worked endless hours during the week
Dolly - used Craig as her dress up doll since karen balked . Dolly was so over the top that Craig locked himself in his room to avoid all the family pool party extravaganzas. Dolly never soothed Craig’s anxieties . She only exploited them. This caused the beginnings of his mental illnesses that would go completely unnoticed until he turned 49 and he had a nervous breakdown
Craig’s role was somewhat mixed. He served as parents flying monkey and a part time scapegoat when karen wasn’t around .
When Karen was banished from the family in 2011. Craig became the full time scapegoat
Ellen - Passive narcissist . Ellen was the catalyst for stirring the Kay family when steve starting dating her in 81-82. She’s beautiful, well educated, worldly and had that “it” quality which drew the masses to adore her. She could say diarrhea and people wouldn’t be disgusted because ellen said it in a much more pleasant manner
It doesn’t even matter the exact specifics. This is the dynamic of the Kay’s
She dominated the undominatable Steve
Dolly worshipped her because she was the true socialite extraordinaire
Craig - loved loved loved ellen . He had a not so secret crush. She loved the redskins , and she was the best skier in the family
karen - was the lone family member to id her as a huge problem . She outwardly hated ellen. Ellen worked behind the scenes to destroy her. This would be the recipe for all the Kay’s
Ron come on dude . When some person comes to you with a request for a nose job, facelift , Tummy tuck, liposuction. Has suffered bullying and depression all her life and wants to shed the old exterior self without addressing the interior self. There’s no way you would take her as a client
Amazing piece! Craig is one strong individual and you two have really shed some light on a topic not talked about enough! Stay strong Craig! This is inspiring to so many of us living in similar toxic families
I’ve had the pleasure of knowing Craig and spending a great deal of time with him, good times and trying times. He is not delusional and is the farthest thing from being a narcissist. He is as real a person as it gets.
Hey Marla , just wanted to wish you and your family happy Hanukkah and I hope the leonsis family gets the Lerner fam all they deserve for bringing a World Series championship to DC
I’m trying to understand your critique of me as of last years quip to defend your bff but not to any of the actual facts . You said I didn’t do my homework. I’d love to go over this issue that you have brought to the public’s attention .
When your family sells the Nats , I’d love to work WITH you on a serious topic that goes unnoticed by the masses
That mental illnesses are common
That mental illnesses should never be stigmatized
That family bullying is actually a thing
That NPD is a thing especially if diagnosed which my mother was diagnosed in the 60s
That a family excommunicating those that question actual events and never speaking to that person ever again while smearing their name and stealing money they never worked for is a felony. This condition is known as scapegoating
You would be the perfect leader of such a group . Please reach out to me when you can
We can both do some actual good. I miss my big brother everyday. I have dreams where he and I are true brothers as we used to as much younger people.
You can still be friends with Ellen . This project doesn’t have to involve her since she doesn’t acknowledge my existence
Its actually quite amazing who finds there way to the far corners of the internet to passive aggressively comment on a situation that they obviously know only one side and couldn't careless about the other even though they can read how much pain that other side has displayed. I cannot be sure of the identity of MLT, but If I am correct as to who the identity actually is, I wont jump to conclusions as any uber-wealthy owner of a sports team could have done this or it may just be another cowardly act of my covert narcissist estranged sister in law I would hope it be the latter. I have grown to love the Nats and wouldn't want to change my allegiance to the O's
So to further expand upon my undiagnosed mentally ill estranged family as if you all didn’t get enough yesterday
I was contacted by the editor of this fb group that did such an amazing job of capturing my unbelievable story. A story that when examined could have been dealt with properly with upfront , direct communication but unfortunately that ship has sailed .
This poor editor , Carrie Seidman, was attacked by members of my estranged family for publishing something that makes them look bad despite my assertions that it’s all true.
I would be quite ok with having to defend this in court . See the newly established caveat at the top of The page
The issue for my estranged loved ones is that by taking me to court that would open up a can of worms for them during discovery.
At the bottom of the bottom of existence, I finally learned some things . 1. Speak truth to power , 2. Don’t allow them to propagate at will. Call them out . They hate that. 3. Rinse and repeat
Give Carrie a big harumph for doing some seriously good work, I would be so ever grateful .
Carrie your article has put some serious wind in my sail foe the first time in a long time
I would like to clarify that I was never "attacked" by anyone in the Kay family. I was politely contacted by a family member who was deeply concerned that Craig's characterization of the family events and interactions does not represent the perspective of others in the family and serves only to exacerbate the family divide. Rather than take down the story. I agreed to add an editor's note (as I have) clarifying that the article represents Craig's views only.
Can't believe what Craig has gone through! His poor siblings, too, and my heart goes out to all of them. Thank God Craig has persevered! Blessings to all!
Carrie, that is some seriously good work. As someone who has known Craig since the 1980's I want to thank you for facing and being willing to write about the hard stuff. To the reader of this comment: please note that there are many sides to every story and multiple perspectives can all be right at the same time.
Thank you, Vince. You’re so very right. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I am proud of Craig for tackling talking about mental illness both his own and his family’s. I am also a member of his family but on his wife’s side. I also have depression in my family which, had it not been taboo to talk about, I would have gotten help for SO much sooner. We are all human, not perfect, and pretending we don’t all have crap going on in our brains is “crazy”. Here’s to Craig - glad you’re in a better place and talking about it!! <3 Val
Words can not express how special Craig is for sharing his story. If one person can be helped from his story then he has done more than many can hope to do. Craig and his wife and children are truly special people.
Carrie, thank you for sharing Craig’s devastatingly tragic story of what seems to be a true account of his families struggle with mental illness . Kudos to anyone who sheds light on such a serious health issue in our culture.
As a lifelong friend of Steve Kay I feel the need to comment that I do not think that this article is as accurate as it may appear. It probably only reflects the opinions of Craig and his perception of his life. I have found in life that there are usually three sides to every story. The two sides of those In disagreement. And the truth. I will leave it at that.
You're right, Ron. This article only represents Craig's side of the story, though he quite readily admitted that he made plenty of mistakes and missteps all along the way, some of them the result of his untreated illness. What I think is the most important takeaway is not whose perspective is right or wrong -- if anyone's can be said to be the truth -- but how untreated and denied mental illness can derail a family, regardless of their wealth or status. Personally, I feel sad and sorry for all the members of the Kay family.
Hey Ron
Happy Hanukkah and happy new year
I went back and looked at this article and noticed both you, an well established plastic surgeon and Pilar of your community in Ellicott City
Ron I’m hoping that after 1 year of posting this which you took as my revenge on steve , isn’t that at all
If anything all three Kay kids were victims of a dysfunctional family with all members negotiating their days by viewing their experiences thru the prism their parents have put together according to their own narratives .
In that Case it was the never ending pursuit of the highest social status . That means that this must be attained damn the consequences on who gets hurt. They are viewed as causalities of war
I’m not sure you are aware but dolly has been officially diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder which as you know is very rare
So that dynamic established the Mr and Mrs Marvin Kay
Marvin - depression disorder , hid his alternate lifestyle private but it promoted his suicidal thoughts to his last day until Alzheimer’s removed his pain and shame .
He married a girl 10 years his junior after meeting each other only 75 days prior to a child who was not educated nor as sophisticated as him. He was looking for a mate that would bring him out of his shell
Dolly - diagnosed npd/bpd. OCD adhd
Dolly was just turning 19 when she became the wife of a very successful builder . She was showered with gifts and money that she never had during her childhood
Within 12 months after getting married she gave birth to Steve,
I have waited for 2 years and have lost my entire family while waiting to tell my story . My wife and my two daughters as well. If there are inaccuracies then let’s discuss them .
Ronny I have known you since I was 5 . I was your first and only groupie for your high school rock band. The last time steve was depressed in the mid 90s you and I spoke on how to best care for steve.
The last time I saw you was at the funeral. I came over to shake your hand as you were my brothers best friend . You would have nothing to do with me. You note any of steve or Ellen’s friends would give me the time of day.
Didn’t I lose a brother? You gave my mother a big hug and a kiss but not me. I went to sit next to my mother and she said no, I went to sit behind ellen and the kids and Steven and Beth israel, Ellen’s sister and brother I. Law wouldn’t allow me to sit down . Ellen’s eulogy wiped me out of Steve’s life.
What was The reason for your rejection of me. What were you told . I’d love to hear your side of the story. Curious why no one bothered to hear my side of story .
What’s adding insult to injury is that my sister in law of 36 years, a sister in law I have had no issues nor arguments with has created a hateful propaganda campaign against me . She accused me of stealing, she has labeled me the reason for Steve’s suicide . She has persuaded my mother to cut ties with me and my children . She has stolen the loyalties of my best friend. Why would she do that Ronny ?
Then there is the cover up of financial documents with my name on them. I have asked for ellen to give her side but she refuses to even acknowledge that I exist .
Don’t you agree that having respect for ones family is the most important. Do you believe I was shown any respect ?
If you would like to hear my story , I would love to hear yours . Name the time and place or we can zoom
And Ronny, you should show some respect for me . You have my email and phone number . It’s been 2 years , feel free to call you me at anytime
Hard to explain , but I’m still living as the exiled family member . Every week or so I get a disturbing communication from an estranged family member looking to reap $$ for beating me up. It’s awful but I am so thankful that when the next true crisis does occur I know who NOT to ask for help.
God works in mysterious ways . He meant for me to survive and tell my story
2 years later Karen was born
So dolly at age 22 dolly was the wife of a successful builder. She was the mother of a new born and a feisty toddler in steve.
But dolly was only putting on a front . Wife, mother, socialite. But she lacked vital life skills to go through life as an adult .
She never graduated high school
She could not drive a car until mid 60s
She paid no attention to the dysfunctional/highly emotional issues that both Kay kids were going through. Instead she played favorites
Steve was the golden child
karen was the scapegoat
dolly was the narcissist
Marvin was the enabler/flying monkey
This established hierarchy was the stencil even well before I was born in 1967
steve - depression disorder. Steve being the first child of a child mother enabled him to run her ragged. He did anything he wanted which he got much praise from parents . steve was the golden child
Karen - paranoid schizophrenic/npd(undiagnosed) . Karen had a great deal of difficulty . She was painfully shy and was completely overwhelmed by socialite mother and all of Dolly’s friends who also had daughters and which promoted competition which karen would not have any part of. Dolly wanted a Princess to doll up . Karen fought back and wasn’t shy about any of it . She was the first truthteller of the family . But her presentation often discredit her and caused her inherited mental illnesses to reveal themselves
Craig - manic depression, ptsd. Was born in 67 which was 7 years younger than karen and 10 years younger than steve . Kay family members were all adults by the time craig left his room and wanted to find a role within the family
Marvin - 40 years older but a very attentive weekend warrior dad since he worked endless hours during the week
Dolly - used Craig as her dress up doll since karen balked . Dolly was so over the top that Craig locked himself in his room to avoid all the family pool party extravaganzas. Dolly never soothed Craig’s anxieties . She only exploited them. This caused the beginnings of his mental illnesses that would go completely unnoticed until he turned 49 and he had a nervous breakdown
Craig’s role was somewhat mixed. He served as parents flying monkey and a part time scapegoat when karen wasn’t around .
When Karen was banished from the family in 2011. Craig became the full time scapegoat
Ellen - Passive narcissist . Ellen was the catalyst for stirring the Kay family when steve starting dating her in 81-82. She’s beautiful, well educated, worldly and had that “it” quality which drew the masses to adore her. She could say diarrhea and people wouldn’t be disgusted because ellen said it in a much more pleasant manner
It doesn’t even matter the exact specifics. This is the dynamic of the Kay’s
She dominated the undominatable Steve
Dolly worshipped her because she was the true socialite extraordinaire
Craig - loved loved loved ellen . He had a not so secret crush. She loved the redskins , and she was the best skier in the family
karen - was the lone family member to id her as a huge problem . She outwardly hated ellen. Ellen worked behind the scenes to destroy her. This would be the recipe for all the Kay’s
Ron come on dude . When some person comes to you with a request for a nose job, facelift , Tummy tuck, liposuction. Has suffered bullying and depression all her life and wants to shed the old exterior self without addressing the interior self. There’s no way you would take her as a client
Amazing piece! Craig is one strong individual and you two have really shed some light on a topic not talked about enough! Stay strong Craig! This is inspiring to so many of us living in similar toxic families
You should have done your research. He is a self delusional narcissist and is not a victim in this story. He just wants to be.
I’ve had the pleasure of knowing Craig and spending a great deal of time with him, good times and trying times. He is not delusional and is the farthest thing from being a narcissist. He is as real a person as it gets.
Hey Marla , just wanted to wish you and your family happy Hanukkah and I hope the leonsis family gets the Lerner fam all they deserve for bringing a World Series championship to DC
I’m trying to understand your critique of me as of last years quip to defend your bff but not to any of the actual facts . You said I didn’t do my homework. I’d love to go over this issue that you have brought to the public’s attention .
When your family sells the Nats , I’d love to work WITH you on a serious topic that goes unnoticed by the masses
That mental illnesses are common
That mental illnesses should never be stigmatized
That family bullying is actually a thing
That NPD is a thing especially if diagnosed which my mother was diagnosed in the 60s
That a family excommunicating those that question actual events and never speaking to that person ever again while smearing their name and stealing money they never worked for is a felony. This condition is known as scapegoating
You would be the perfect leader of such a group . Please reach out to me when you can
We can both do some actual good. I miss my big brother everyday. I have dreams where he and I are true brothers as we used to as much younger people.
You can still be friends with Ellen . This project doesn’t have to involve her since she doesn’t acknowledge my existence
Have a great Hanukkah and a happy new year
Best Craig
Its actually quite amazing who finds there way to the far corners of the internet to passive aggressively comment on a situation that they obviously know only one side and couldn't careless about the other even though they can read how much pain that other side has displayed. I cannot be sure of the identity of MLT, but If I am correct as to who the identity actually is, I wont jump to conclusions as any uber-wealthy owner of a sports team could have done this or it may just be another cowardly act of my covert narcissist estranged sister in law I would hope it be the latter. I have grown to love the Nats and wouldn't want to change my allegiance to the O's
So to further expand upon my undiagnosed mentally ill estranged family as if you all didn’t get enough yesterday
I was contacted by the editor of this fb group that did such an amazing job of capturing my unbelievable story. A story that when examined could have been dealt with properly with upfront , direct communication but unfortunately that ship has sailed .
This poor editor , Carrie Seidman, was attacked by members of my estranged family for publishing something that makes them look bad despite my assertions that it’s all true.
I would be quite ok with having to defend this in court . See the newly established caveat at the top of The page
The issue for my estranged loved ones is that by taking me to court that would open up a can of worms for them during discovery.
At the bottom of the bottom of existence, I finally learned some things . 1. Speak truth to power , 2. Don’t allow them to propagate at will. Call them out . They hate that. 3. Rinse and repeat
Give Carrie a big harumph for doing some seriously good work, I would be so ever grateful .
Carrie your article has put some serious wind in my sail foe the first time in a long time
I would like to clarify that I was never "attacked" by anyone in the Kay family. I was politely contacted by a family member who was deeply concerned that Craig's characterization of the family events and interactions does not represent the perspective of others in the family and serves only to exacerbate the family divide. Rather than take down the story. I agreed to add an editor's note (as I have) clarifying that the article represents Craig's views only.